Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Mike last won the day on August 10

Mike had the most liked content!

Community Reputation

13 Good

Recent Profile Visitors

The recent visitors block is disabled and is not being shown to other users.

  1. Wow. There's a lot to unpack here so I'll try to go through it point by point. True, gasoline has a relatively high energy density when compared to many things. Luckily, that is irrelevant to this conversation since buses are big and have more than enough room for batteries (see here: https://www.proterra.com/vehicles/catalyst-electric-bus/). Electric vehicles are also relatively 'slow' to charge but again this is irrelevant since fully 2/3's of the bus fleet is idle in the depot for most of the day affording them ample opportunity to charge. OC Transpo's dispatch software also already includes the ability to account for charging needs of buses when scheduling them on routes so charging needs can be easily managed. Supercharging doesn't cause "faster wear" per se, what it causes is a bit more heat which isn't good for batteries generally but modern battery packs have active thermal management which take away excess heat and thus very successfully mitigate that problem rendering the concern moot. I have some ideas about why the Hybrids are being replaced but they are not material to fully electric buses and have no baring on this conversation. As for the current OC fleet spending nights outside, yes there are many buses that overnight outside in the cold. They are actually kept idling all night because diesel engines to not like to start when cold so a lot of fuel is wasted in the winter months just because the buses wouldn't start otherwise. Even still many cancellations in the winter are caused by buses that didn't start. Electric buses completely avoid these issues while reducing emissions, fuel consumption and increasing fleet reliability and dispatch availability. Contrary to what you claimed, physics says that electrons actually flow better in the cold (superconductors anyone?) and it would not be difficult for OC to simply charge the buses outdoors overnight which solves two problems. What you are thinking of is that batteries do not like being cold, which is true, however as previously mentioned all modern electric buses have active thermal management of the battery packs thus eliminating this concern. Furthermore, by charging the buses overnight heat is generated which also helps to keep the pack warm. I'll dispel another point you seem to believe which is that battery packs will die prematurely. Electric buses (and all electric vehicles for that matter) the battery packs are designed to last the life of the vehicle (up to around 20 years or so for industrial uses like buses) and are warrantied as such so even if a pack craps out (which would be very unlikely) the bus maker would be on the hook to replace it. And finally no, you are not correct about the distances. OC Transpo buses travel much farther than 15 kms. 15 kms is nothing and even the worst electric vehicles will easily do a paltry 15km. In fact, currently some buses travel as far as 150km! This is not an issue either though as all battery electric buses currently on the market can easily cover such distances with a wide margin, some can even do over 400km to a charge which is well in excess of any typical OC Transpo route. I should mention that these are all verifiable facts and that most major Canadian cities have committed to switching their fleets to battery-electric buses over the next decade. (https://globalnews.ca/news/5136476/edmonton-electric-bus-fleet/) Ottawa is lagging in this regard. Both Montreal (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/stm-stl-montreal-laval-electric-bus-purchase-1.4792790,) (with similar winter conditions as us) and Toronto (https://globalnews.ca/news/5345722/ttc-all-electric-buses-toronto/) are purchasing battery-electric buses en masse as part of their ongoing fleet replacements. Electric buses are now at the point of being drop-in replacements for diesel buses. The only thing holding the city back is outdated, incorrect, or misleading information about electric vehicles.
  2. Cool!! I like the weekly updates they did for Stage 1 so having them for Stage 2 will be nice since it's the Stage that will actually bring a station closer to my house! I look forward to following the progress!
  3. Literally none of what you wrote here is true. Please do some research before posting uninformed opinions.
  4. The more Inveros taken off the streets the better!! Thanks for keeping track of everything. I understand from the forums here that the seat-padding issue on the new Nova's was actually a mistake made when they were ordered and that newer ones will have more padding or something? I'm always amazed at how quiet the Nova's are for a non-electric bus (I'm also always surprised at how loud the Inveros are all the freakin time!). Now if the next batch of 40' replacements were electric things would be looking really good for the city!
  5. I guess that's why they awarded New Flyer (Nova's main Canadian competitor) "Canada's largest-ever battery electric bus contract" then? https://www.newflyer.com/2018/08/montreal-and-laval-award-canadas-largest-ever-battery-electric-bus-contract-to-new-flyer/ If the Nova's were any good they would have continued with them and not switched to a competitor for follow-on contracts. The new batch of Nova's they bought were to fill in the gaps and complete the electrification of the limited routes the Novas are already being used on. For actual fleet replacement needs they went with New Flyers battery-electric Xcelsior CHARGE. Per the press release, they're getting one pilot bus from New Flyer to make sure the depot charging stuff gets all sorted out before the rest of the fleet of production buses follow starting nine months later. If STM were actually happy with the Nova's one would have expected them to leverage the existing infrastructure from the Nova trial program and expand on it. Instead they're going with a competitor and only taking a few months to get the depot charging set up before they deploy a fleet of them That speaks volumes about the Nova buses.
  6. The people who built the trains here are likely the same people who will be maintaining them. It makes sense to move new production to whoever is currently building their own LRT trains since it would allow the facilities in Ottawa to transition to repairing an maintaining the fleet. Building and maintaining the trains would need essentially the same skillsets so I expect most of the people involved in building them will be kept on for the long term in maintaining them.
  7. I can't wait for the Inveros to die a quick death. I dislike them so much. They are obnoxiously loud both inside and outside, jerky, uncomfortable, and their doors are the slowest opening doors in history. I can hear them inside from two blocks away. Why are they so loud?!? I hate those buses so much. Literally any bus is better than the Inveros. I hope they all retire and are turned into scrap as soon as humanly possible.
  8. En-route charging and overhead pantograph charging like Nova Bus uses are not only expensive but are unnecessary and a waste of limited financial resources as each pantograph charger costs as much (if not more) than a bus. The Nova buses used by Montreal and recommended at the aforementioned city meeting are perhaps the least representative, least-capable battery electric buses on the market. It's almost as if the project as proposed was intended to fail. It's telling that the TTC and Montreal did not buy Nova electric buses for their most recent purchases. TTC bought BYD (factory is currently being built in Newmarket) and Proterra (built in California) while Montreal eschewed Nova due to their experience with the buses mentioned in the previous post - and despite them being a hometown Montreal company - and instead went with competitor New Flyer (built in Winnipeg) for their new fleet of battery-electric buses. Edmonton has also chosen Proterra for its fleet after having tested several buses in 2015 under harsh winter conditions. Those competing buses are currently on the market and are already in use in all over North America in ever-increasing numbers. They are able to replace diesel buses one for one by using far less expensive depot charging and do not require expensive en-route pantograph charging infrastructure. Of the major Canadian cities Ottawa is the laggard in the electric bus space. Other cities have tested and put them into service and we still have people making (false) claims about how they might not have enough range or might not hold up in our winters despite similarly cold Canadian cities having no issues with either perceived 'issue'. Remember, the average trip length for an OC Transpo bus during a day is around 250km with many buses doing less than that. Most electric buses (other than Nova) are more than capable running those distances with a wide margin of range to spare. That average will also come down once LRT is up and running as the train will take over the cross-town spine duties and break up routes currently being preformed by buses. With 2/3rds of OC Transpo's fleet inactive during off-peak times there is plenty of potential time to charge the fleet. OC Transpo's scheduling software even has the ability to take such needs into account already. Battery-electric is the future and I'm happy the Transit Commission put the purchase up to tender rather than sole-source it to an inferior product that is doomed to fail. The city should buy any one of the offerings from Nova's competitors and start seeing the fuel and maintenance savings as soon as possible. (Not to mention the environmental benefits!) All future fleet replacements should also be electric as far as I'm concerned. Diesel is done.
  9. The vote options are missing some important players; BYD and Proterra. I have it on good authority that when the big fleet renewal requirements start to hit in 2023 and beyond the city (City Council anyway) wants to go with mostly electric buses instead of diesel. They're spending $6 million (possibly more with Fed funding) this year on a tender to buy "as many electric buses as possible" (most likely a half-dozen or so) to start and it looks like going forward they want most if not all new bus purchases to be battery-electric. Personally my money is on BYD. The TTC has bought a bunch and they're building a factory in Newmarket to build more of them so I can see BYD becoming a big player. If I were king of Canada though I would tell OC Transpo to get Proterra buses because they're awesome. Oh, and LRT will necessitate more buses, not less. OC Transpo will find that they will need to feed the beast that is LRT so they will need more local routes and buses further out to shuttle people to the LRT stations. Every city in the world that has built an LRT system has had to increase the size of their bus fleets. It's more a question of composition. I see more 40' buses being needed and fewer 60' artics as the BRT is replaced with LRT.
  10. I swear the only reason TTC uses boxy stainless steel riveted subway cars is so they can be a stand-in for New York City for movies and TV shows! ;)
  11. Things seem to be looking up on the electric bus front. Yesterday a motion was unanimously passed to have OC-T report back to council on the 19th (next week) about their plans to introduce electric buses to the fleet in large numbers 'before the end of this City Council's term' (or something to that effect). A few weeks ago Manconi wrote a statement saying OC-T is cancelling the electric bus pilot project because other cities are doing pilots and it's too complicated to do an electric bus pilot and launch the LRT system at the same time (apparently OC Transpo, as an organization, is incapable of multitasking). At some point recently, according to the news I saw yesterday, McKenney wrote something back basically saying 'yes, I agree! We don't need a pilot project since electric buses are being used in numerous other cities already and have been for years - we should stop wasting time and just start purchasing them immediately instead!' The mayor yesterday then put forward a motion pretty much saying the same thing and it passed unanimously so if I understand city politics correctly it looks like we'll finally be getting electric buses sooner rather than later!
  12. The station renders show conflicting things about the lanterns. Most showed just the station name running vertically along the side or horizontally at the top but the later renders show a stylized red "O". It's still unclear to me what will be put on the lanterns but they look unfinished to me as they are right now. You can see in the old (top) and newer (bottom) renders of Tremblay that they seem to be going with the big "O" look with the station name at the top but I have yet to see anything like that appear at any of the stations.
  13. Actually the public art for uOttawa is supposed to be a cube of some sort according to the renders. Here's what it should look like. Sorry about the terrible image quality but it's the only one they had in the public art documentation for uOttawa.
  14. There are even more renders available now. The city released a slideshow with lots of pics so I've been harvesting those too. There are now at least a couple of pics for each station including the new Maintenance and Storage Facilities. I think "The Stations" section should probably be updated to include Stage 2 stations now since construction will start on Stage 2 in the next couple of months.
  15. I'm not sure about Limebank either, it's going to be a terminus for quite some time but the Vimy Memorial Bridge is designed to have LRT on it so presumably they will connect it up with a Barhaven extension. My guess is whenever they decide to make it twin track electric. The render of South Keys only shows two tracks so I'm not sure if the plan changed or if they will have crossover tracks and passing on the mainline somewhere other than the station, Greenboro maybe? They could have the airport link train parked there and use the station as a 1 track station for the main line I suppose. I was expecting to see three tracks though. For the airport I was expecting it to be on the mid-level but maybe it has to be departures level for height reasons? It's more or less what they described to me via email after the public consultations I went to, the original plan at the consultations was to have it in front of the parkade and then have people cross the three lanes of traffic. I told them that was a terrible idea, especially in the winter so I'm glad they were able to change the design. I was also expecting to see platform on both sides for easier boarding but I guess that didn't make the cut. It's funny how the render has the airport apron as a forrest though lol. I'm most excited about Walkley, that'll be my local station. Place d'Orleans has an unexpected and new second elevated walkway, I wonder what that's about? It seems a bit redundant. It's nice to see a pedestrian walkway at Queensview go pretty much right up to the corner where you turn to go in to the back of Ikea so that's cool. Baseline is already built pretty much underneath the new Algonquin building, they'll just need to make the entrances and platforms but the space is already built and set aside (under the grass roof/plaza part). The rest are pretty much as expected, the LRTification of Transitway Stations.
O-Train Fans is not affiliated, nor connected to either OC Transpo or the City of Ottawa.
Customer related inquiries should be directed to them and not this site by visiting the OC Transpo or the City of Ottawa websites.
O-Train Fans n'est pas affilié, ni relié à OC Transpo ou à la Ville d'Ottawa.
Les demandes de renseignements des clients doivent leur être adressées et non à ce site en visitant les sites web d'OC Transpo ou de la Ville d'Ottawa.
  • Create New...