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Herlsone last won the day on January 10

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  1. The ENTIRE areas of Bank Street, Lowertown, Vanier, etc... is in dire need a reason for developers to rehabilitate these areas or build new buildings, developments. This line would be well worth the investment. The Fed Government can only talk about being green and funding transport.. now is the time to hit them up for a billion or two.
  2. I would say this yellow line is needed more than any suburban line. Bank Street, Lowertown, Vanier would be a great addition to the system and serve high density areas.
  3. Yes, just simply yes. The nuances of this can be worked out (even yellow vs green line duplicity) but simply yes. Do it. The LRT just feeding the Red Line (line 1/confederation/whatever) does not scale well nor is reliable/fault tolerant. This type of system, combined with reduced (meaning onerous) regulations for building new TOD housing units and walking communities around stations, would increase the quality of life, lower the housing costs, and make Ottawa a place people and business move to. Commuter rail does not have to be a huge massive cost (original trillium as an example and many of the Go lines) Tunnels, well, that is different and a huge investment. Some concepts this help with. Creating alternate paths in case of failure. Think of London, to get to any tube station not at the dead end spur of a line, there are usually 4 or 5 ways to get somewhere. It would be nice for Ottawa to have simply a second way to get downtown or to Tremblay. Cross connections. Like Clapham Junction in London, many different trains go a little out of their way there so people may connect to trains that are going to different directions. And this connection is done outside the city center. Trains from many London central stations go via Clapham just for this interconnect purpose. Fault Tolerance. When the central train communications center finally (or again?) gets hacked by the (insert bad guy here), then it doesn't bring the entire system down. FEWER CONNECTIONS from the airport to where people want to go. Sorry, 3 trains to get downtown (to where offices and hotels are) from the airport is a total non-starter. Its a terrible plan and people will just take uber. Or taking a train to Gatineau, 4 or 5 trains eventually? Seems like the taxis and uber are behind not using the POW bridge to the Gat BRT. I could go on, but these discussions are needed. Especially if there is a change that this type of system can LOWER the debt burden........ Not unless the Trillium goes to Gatineau over the POW and meets or takes over the BRT in Gat.
  4. I agree with another connector for sure. One easy one (in my pipedream mind) is to get VIA off their keister and start high frequency service between Fallowfield and Tremblay. Get some Line 2 style diesel commuter trains and run service on the line. Either let Octranspo operate them and the Presto card works, or if Via has to operate them, work it out with some presto gates. Going south from Tremblay these higher frequency than Via trains could stop/connect at Line 2 Mooney's then proceed Southwest to Walkley road and get Riverside into some train action..then stop somewhere in the Nepean industrial area (2 stops would be good there) ...then down to Fallowfield for a LRT connect (note, connecting with 2 LRT lines!) Then with a growth of the line we proceed to Longfields..then somewhere into Barrhaven West...then all the crazy way to Richmond where it seems the station used to be and the is some great area for a siding/Depot/shed whatever. It would then be easy just to include Smith falls in this too. Some new sidings would have to be built in a few areas for more train passing, some longer double track improvements and so forth. Would be quite simple (again..in my mind) and allow for alternate methods/routes to get to many areas of the metro area. Larger plans aside, a Barrhaven--> Fallowfield--> Mooney's--> Tremblay high frequency connect would be a winner for sure.
  5. And what if a train shows up that is full? Or half full? Or whatever...? I have ridden plenty of train systems that you had to wait until the next train...and brand new ones (Dubai) but never a train system with such small platforms. When you have a chance to build from scratch, why not just over do it? "Ok studies say we need 12 feet to make room for 600 people...". ... "Ok..let's do 30 feet."
  6. I think I may have reached a general understanding of a what concepts I was missing here..... I have been disillusioned by the many LRT stations in all planning stages that are just connections to bus transit lines, parking lot pickup spots or other change of transit mode stations.... I constantly thought to myself, how can these people be so short sighted about planning and where the stations are located... so many mistakes... until digging into what this thread has been chatting about.... the idea behind Ottawa LRT really is just to get people in and out of downtown more efficiently, time and cost wise than with a zillion buses... To replace expensive bus labor with trains, to replace buses and traffic with trains.... When I thought it was to take that into account AND plan for 50 or 100 years of sustainable growth by the city(s) in the metro area So back to my development at Fallowfield concept. I think that what the city/lrt planners are forgetting is that people do not really listen to planners. They see opportunities and go with it. Once you create a well working train system, people's habits change, where they live changes, how they commute changes. Take for instance Chicago, they have a horrid train system...unless you work downtown..then every train is perfect as you can live just about anywhere. Every form of train will take you downtown. So people live near these train and subway lines. However, if you work elsewhere in the city, you are screwed (and nobody is complaining to the city, oh woe is me, bring a bus or train to my house, they move to a convenient place to commute via train from - no comment about car commuters) Chicago has resisted making inter connecting train lines to bypass the downtown or make a system like London or Paris because it will dilute the importance of downtown. For Chicago politicians, spreading power to others outside the core is just a non-starter. Once people get to commute without a car pretty much anywhere..they will! This means offices will move to less expensive areas...and the obvious economics apply, but then downtown suffers with competition and declining political influence. This will happen here since the train in stages 2 and 3 and whatever happens with 4 and on, will end up with interconnections and not just a feed the downtown core. That is why I argued for use of the PoW bridge and bringing frequent train service to the Gat BRT and beyond. It will not be a build it and they will come now thing, but its for sure a "lower the overall cost of living and doing business" in the greater metro area by having good transit, and the metro area will grow properly concept. And we all know we do not want just rampant senseless growth that plagues most suburbs of cities... and you avoid this building communities around transit options. And let me be frank .... Bus options are not real transit options. Sorry bus people, but a bus is just a human decision to run or not or even keep in your area. A train system has long term staying power because of the infrastructure involved. Communities are built around trains all over the world, not around buses. Buses simply cannot scale due to operational cost and pensions. And from my perspective, our municipal governments should not ever be in the pension business. So I have rambled on ad nauseam here, but now that I realize what I was missing conceptually, the LRT makes sense it was planned. But it does not make sense as the city will inevitably change, double in population, and people will work in different areas commuting from one neighborhood to another and never going downtown. We need to build communities where trains meet, and plan on having more trains systems meet in other parts of the metro area to plan more communities. (note, as in transit oriented, not more Costco parking lots.)
  7. Does anyone know what the development plan is for around the Fallowfield area? If someone tells me, "oh there is going to 4 strip malls, 3 condo buildings and lots of surface parking for Costco going in, I am going to strangle them... ok, maybe not...but where two growing train systems overlap, development booms. The area in my high tech ms paint diagram should be developed like a town/community/high street/etc... A walk-able community with residences, offices, trade, etc... not single family homes with a need for lots of cars and buses to take people to the transit center. Anyone have any leads on where this development info is?
  8. I swear, while doing the first checklists that I saw different combinations of trains months apart. It can't be that difficult to couple and uncouple, plus the forever empty drivers cabs that face each other are lit up and working... if permanently not going to be used, I doubt they would still have equipment in them running up hourly time prior to overhaul/replacement. If it is hard, I bet it is only the software and control room programming.
  9. Once again, too much to quote, and good points made.... and without going into any sort of detail at all about bridges.., I think what most people (if I may be duly appointed the spokesman for "most people...") ultimately think, is that taking a transit bus sucks. It's steerage class compared to a metro or local transit train and is downright tortuous compared to an uber. Generally trains have stations and infrastructure, generally the bus has a cold shelter on the side of the road on which you stand in the rain and snow and you have nowhere to move to on the bus when the guy that never showers sits next to you. Never confuse enthusiasm with realism! Compare compromise and boring with realism! ? Cheers.
  10. Is anyone else starting to feel embarrassed about our train launch? I do give them a lot of leeway for sure as it is a brand new system...but seriously, I thought they were supposed to do 12 days of no fault testing? There is lots of faults! Many of the interruptions were not just people holding doors (like today's switch issue). How come the trains only seem to fail during weekday rush?
  11. This is why eventually we will need an authority set up to manage all the inter-province transportation and infrastructure. Bus and train trips, bridge management, tunnels, etc.. Like the PATH in New York and New Jersey, BART in the San Fran metro area, etc... Even without a setup like this, revenue sharing based on big data analytics is not difficult anymore. Even without a London UK zone type tap in/tap out system, scientific samples of peoples behavior and traffic patterns can now be done just from cell phone tower data. The city could buy data from Rogers and Bell, "how many people with 613 numbers spend the day in QC and rode a bus/train during rush hour or the reverse, (I am obviously simplifying this, but not much!) and share revenue accordingly. We could do this tomorrow and stop having 2 different bus systems running across the river. Or.... we do a London style zone system and get contactless/interact cards working an then you can have variable/dynamic pricing... (There is that enthusiasm running amok again... ? )
  12. Too much to quote here! I see all of your points and for sure get your reasoning, and yes I more of a fan than a realist. I for sure am enthusiastic! I think people are overestimating the "free bridge" concept of the Portage bridge. It will need a lot of work to put any train system on it and if its grade separated it will basically need all sorts of new engineering. If it is not grade separated, then forget it being quick and useful for commuters. One of the newer reasons that people do not flock to Hull after hours is that uber does not work there. I know there are taxis, but simply put, most people I know don't take taxis at all anymore, so if you cant get home, why go? But that wasn't my point. My point was just convert them Rapidbus to be part of the trillium line and it will be a huge benefit to the entire region, Buses for now or a street tram just going back and for on Tache and around downtown Hull will suffice there.. The taxi "chit" system will be ending at some point here as its a frivolous expense when a $3 train goes to the airport (think of the political ads! "He paid 2,000% more for a private ride to the airport when us common-folk take the train... Don't vote for Evil Man...) The taxi perk will die like ...well like taxis are dying. On the other hand, an easy train ride/connection to Hull for university students, now that would work for sure...and not a rush hour use either. ? The economic power of the airport and what it can provide to the area, even if small now, should never be underestimated. Setting that place up for future growth is worth every cent invested. And easy transportation there...yup. I am sure the future will hold high(er) taxes/tariffs for any taxi/ride share/private car, the train will become the better option for business travelers and government. I have only been here a little over 4 years...and its a totally different place than it was. Edit - I forgot to mention that with the operations of the airport moving to a privately run operation instead of a Crown Corp, there will be a far larger push on growth. I agree with the build it and they don't come idea. That is why I was surprised at phase 2 having a lot of stations built in the highway or not building at the same time a planned high density community around the stations. Stops in the middle of highways in cities that have winters....forget it. Nobody goes out of their way to use it. I was just in Toronto and visited the new developments going up near the Barrie and Richmond Hill lines. My mind "thunk" oh good plan, build high density around the train stops. But I was severely disappointed. Instead of the station being central to the development, its off to the side and lots of farmland was turned into parking lots with a condo tower another parking lot, another tower there, one farther away, more parking lots, big box plaza shopping centers with parking lots. Could easily have made a community. The way Ottawa it laid out now with sprawling housing tracts, I dont see that being practical to sustain public transit growth to all these new and planned single family housing areas. We need to build into our system a change in the fabric of the city. But all that is way past my initial point.... Airport --->>> Trillium Line-->>>POW BRIDGE <<<----Rapidbus. and the only thing that needs attention is the bridge... "HMMMM , we built this neat transit system with a nice interconnection stop here at Bayview.... and right across the river...well look at that, there is the terminal end of the new Rapidbus right across the river....if we only had a bridge... HAH! And seriously converting the rapidbus back to diesel train with electric in the future is easy, stations are there, right of way is there. On the downside, I did hear of some intense lobbying to not do the POW bridge because that would not be a massive construction project with boatload of jobs for Quebec. So politics rears its head early on.
  13. So I let this one sink in a bit to see if I was just "Awesome train stuff biased..." about using the POW train bridge, well.., for trains... Turns out, I AM biased for using the bridge for its intended purpose. However, I took some time out of the boring part of my life: work, family, dog.., to put some action behind my thoughts. As I posted elsewhere, I believe the argument that the POW bridge is too far west is false. I did a small experiment. Starting downtown, I took the Otrain to Bayview got out and "pretended" to take the Trillium to Tache bus transfer by taking an uber. I boarded the Rabidbus and off I went. Making the assumption that my uber was actually a quick connect fast Trillium shuttle across the river, it was fast and simple. On the way back, I got a taxi and made the driver (from Casino) take a route suggested by STO for their tram, all the way to Lyon, then transferred to the Otrain, then to Bayview, then onto line 2 for my theoretical trip to the airport. Even taking 50% off the taxi time to account for coordinated/priority traffic lights or some below grade dedicated stretches... it was ridiculous. If it was a rush hour commute or I was loaded with my suitcase for the off-rush trip to the airport, it was not workable as a real modern city solution. Scientific? No. Representative? Yes. The Bayview station is actually central to the entire metro area. It is only west of downtown, it is east, north and south of many places! The largest growth is occurring in areas of the metro area that are not downtown Ottawa. LRT Phase 2 will be bringing train access to many employers and entertainment areas. I think people, including myself, forget how a proper train system (not bus/street tram) makes a city feel so much smaller geographically. Bayview/POW/Tache/Rapidbus connects to the Airport. I cannot stress how important this is to have simple mass transit access to the airport. Very soon, we will have train access to the airport! Almost the entire population of Gatineau (Hull, Gat, et. al.) will be within a very short walk/taxi/uber of a fast single-transfer public transit access to the airport. The Rapidbus ends at Tache, the Trilliium can end there too. Currently , to get to YOW, people in Gatineau have to pay a huge taxi fare (its horrible even from this side in the Market...), pay to park at the airport, or have a friend drop them off. The time, convenience, money, and automobile trips saved to get to and from the airport is well worth this option. Edit - I forgot to mention that if Trillium comes over, and eventually converts entire Rapidbus to train, then most of Gatineau will have direct no-transfer train service to the airport. Something most in Ottawa will never achieve. To help things along, the airport is not a rush hour use only. YOW is basically a 18 hour operation, a huge employer, and that area of the city is growing like mad. They need employee access and lots of employees like to live in less expensive areas, like Quebec. To think that someone at the Lac Leamy Casino or anyone anywhere along the Rapidbus route, would go to the airport via a) get ride to rapidbus b) change to Hull street tram c) change at Lyon to Otrain d) change at Bayview for Line 2, is simply lunacy. It would take forever and be highly NOT-convenient. Even if they built a dedicated grade separated line that went to Pimisi from downtown Hull, its not practical to change at Pimisi then again at Bayview. Fast and efficient connections are paramount for success. Gatineau's plan of a street driving tram (or some sort of combination of street and grade separated) is neither fast nor efficient. Just look at the new Kitchener/Waterloo system. The new tram is really nice, but it is not fast in any sense of the word. Uber will compete with them to no end. Gatineau's "new" plan to use the Portage bridge to drop people on the street outside of the Lyon Otrain station is simply ridiculous at best. We just removed the bus traffic from there with an expensive tunnel, and now we think bringing vehicles back to the curb is a good idea? That is not a real interconnected system. Converting Gatineau's Rapidbus back to train does not have to be a billion dollar expense. With the Trillium going to Tache, it would be simple to, one or two stations at a time, move the train/bus transfer station up the line and convert the buses from rapid bus use to train feeders. Because the way the line is laid out now, at grade boarding ,with no massive expense for elevators, would make this an inexpensive conversion. This is just one of two needed train bridges - If we are serious about this, then we need a bridge east of downtown too (and convert the Alexandria bridge to LRT too) in order to make this all just wonderful My 2 cents for today!
  14. Just as a side note, after spending considerable amount of time "riding the rails," the concept that the POW bridge is too far west is not true anymore. With Bayview station now open, it is just a few minutes to downtown, uOttawa, Carleton. I do not think anyone really expected that is would shrink the size of the city so much.
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