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Stadler FLIRT - New Trains for Trillium Line

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There is also a new bus paint scheme that will be seen on the new Novabuses coming in a couple months, from what Inhave heard it is similar (ish) the the Confederation Line livery, so I would guess the FLIRTs will be similar as well. I also quite like the LINT paint scheme, as it is a clean solid colour and just suits the train well. I really enjoy riding on the LINTs, very comfortable and a very smooth ride, and will be sad to see them go, except when I will take the train to the airport, of course.

-Charlie

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Just found this video of an operator walking from end to end of a FLIRT train. Note that this one is a EMU electric and not diesel so there is no Power Pack in the middle. But gives an idea of the layout and drivers cabs. Interesting the size of the drivers cab. The access door has some cabinets or whatnot between it and the actual control seating area.

Be sure to watch from the beginning till about 4 minutes. The walkthrough is from about 2:00 to 3:45 ish.

 

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On 9/22/2018 at 9:22 AM, Charlie said:

There is also a new bus paint scheme that will be seen on the new Novabuses coming in a couple months, from what Inhave heard it is similar (ish) the the Confederation Line livery, so I would guess the FLIRTs will be similar as well. I also quite like the LINT paint scheme, as it is a clean solid colour and just suits the train well. I really enjoy riding on the LINTs, very comfortable and a very smooth ride, and will be sad to see them go, except when I will take the train to the airport, of course.

-Charlie

Do we have any images of these new buses?

I for one am a big fan of the new trains, I think the design is a lot nicer than the lints.

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8 hours ago, reecemartin said:

Do we have any images of these new buses?

I for one am a big fan of the new trains, I think the design is a lot nicer than the lints.

No images yet... but we're supposed to be getting them in ..4 months? A little less of a wait than for the FLIRTs!

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Stadler has unveiled the "FLIRT Akku" which is a battery powered version of the FLIRT.

It has a top speed of 140km/h and a range of 80km. It can charge via overhead electrification (in parts of routes that are electrified), via a dedicated power supply at terminal stations (kind of like how the Nova Bus LFSe works I guess?) and through regenerative braking.

https://www.stadlerrail.com/en/meta/news-media/article/stadler-unleashes-flirt/

This seems like it would be perfect for use on the Trillium Line.

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See, the perfect solution for the Trillium Line. No doubt there are potentially a few spots where full electrification would not be possible, so this train could bridge the missing gaps.

For example, the section between Bayview and Mooney's Bay could be electrified, and the section beyond that as it crosses other tracks could rely on the battery. Take this with a grain of salt, I'm not knowledgeable on the areas where electrification would be suitable or possible.

But this train could allow for switching back and forth to allow operation no matter where the overhead cantenary is suitable and where it is not. Great development. Almost certain it is too late for the Stage 2 LRT, but maybe it is possible to later on upgrade the FLIRT powerpack to allow this type of operation. The FLIRTs being ordered are bi-power, meaning they operate on diesel generators that power the electric motors, thereby allowing a conversion later on to full electric operation. When that does come to pass in the future, the FLIRT Akku could help bridge any potential gaps.

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Personally, I think the LINT units NEED to be kept and used to expand the LINE 2 (O-TRAIN vs. O-TRAM) services further afield within the Ottawa - Gatineau area.

Ottawa has lots of abandoned and little-used freight line that are currently in-place and pass through suburban areas that are crying out for a rail service to get commuters into the downtown core. 

  • We've got the old OA&PS line thru Bells Corners and Kanata North;
  • The VIA Rail line to Barr Haven (2 tracks essential!);
  • The M&O Sub could be used to reach into Orleans South (use the hydro easement across Innes Rd to access Trim Road South), via Chapel Hill South;
  • Even the former CPR North Shore route into Hull, and Gatineau;
  • The ex-CPR Prescott Sub will need a LOT of work (2 tracks) to access Riverside South - including a southern alignment to reach Riverview P&R

With the recent Phase 2 contract announcement, Ottawa has missed a golden opportunity to extend the O-TRAIN beyond the LINE 2 limitations and run out to Kanata North, Barr Haven, and Orleans South.  With the co-operation of the City of Gatineau we COULD even take the O-TRAIN across the river to serve Hull and Gatineau.

The LINT DMUs are more than good enough to run all of these 'proposed extensions of service' (on a 15 min frequency).  I'm sure ALSTOM would welcome adding more units into the Ottawa fleet - they have the maintenance capacity at Walkley Road.  The LINT units appear to have held their own in Ottawa service (opinions?) yet these STADLER Flirts are only running in Texas (no winter down there!).  As said in a previous post, Ottawa has acquired another model train.

Keeping the fleet focussed on ALSTOM products simplifies procurement, and maintenance.  The LINT DMUs are no-doubt convertible to OLE power - they operate both diesel and electric models in Europe!

Just my opinion - (feel free to comment)

Jon in Ottawa

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I believe from what I understand (and correct me if I am wrong), several lines that are currently not being used are part of the MOOSE transit proposal (commuter rail) to the outskirts and beyond.

The expansion to Kanata and Barrhaven is part of a future Stage 3 expansion, but as a matter reality, need Stage 2 to get the tracks that far.

I do agree that I am somewhat surprised they are not getting more LINTs instead of the FLIRTs for the Trillium Expansion. While there is no issue with a dual model fleet for the line, training, maintenance and part stores would be easier to maintain with one model in service than two. I guess it comes down to bids and that the FLIRT may be more easily switched to electric power than the LINTs are in their current configuration.

Again please correct me if I got any details wrong. But this is my thinking.

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Just my thought, but I think acquiring 14 Lint 41 vs 7 FLIRT was not only an economical decision, but likely one of timeframes also. Alstom might not have had a proper timeslot to offer OC, and therefore would have delayed launch of Stage 2 further back. Kinda of a similar thing with airlines, you often see predominently Airbus, then they get a bunch of Boeing simply because Airbus couldn't meet their deadline for delivery.

 

EDIT: Also to add to the decision, FLIRT are definitely easier to switch to full-on electric mode compared to the LINT, but also offers better performance in terms of pollution (Tier 4 vs Tier 3). Might also be related to Transport Canada crash test requirements, but I don't know for sure.

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20 hours ago, DavidBellerive said:

Might also be related to Transport Canada crash test requirements, but I don't know for sure.

Wasn't really a requirement since the LINTs are allowed to operate anyway, but the FLIRTs do have better crash resistance (they meet the FRA's alternate requirements). 

The FLIRTs also have the advantage of being more configurable over the LINTs. Each side of each car on the FLIRT has 2 doors, whereas the LINT 41 only has 1 door per side per car (and that's a huge bottleneck). Other variations of the LINT like the LINT 54 and LINT 81 offer two doors per side per car, but aren't really configurable to the length the city needs. The LINT 81 may be the right length, but loses out in just about every other category.

Coupling two LINT 41s together also offers far less capacity than a single 4-car FLIRT. I also read that FLIRTs are some of the most reliable trains in existence(?) so that must be pretty nice too.

The City didn't lock themselves down to getting DB-speced DMUs this time so it's probably given them a lot more freedom in configuring the trains for use here (PTC being one of them, I imagine). Overall, I'm sure they'll be some very nice trains.

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13 hours ago, occheetos said:

I also read that FLIRTs are some of the most reliable trains in existence

Seems to be a common theme among my readings too, probably a combination of both the sales volume and the actual reliability of the equipment. I know a lot of people around here really like the LINT (I think they are nice too), but I am interested to see how the FLIRT will differ in noise, smoothness and "performance" compared to the LINT.

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Here is a press release shared today by Stadler on the first purchase in Canada of the FLIRT trains. Specifically for the Trillium Line. Delivery of the vehicles will start in mid-2021.

Lots of information is contained within. Check it out. 

2019_0423_media_release_ottawa_en.pdf

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42 minutes ago, Shane said:

Here is a press release shared today by Stadler on the first purchase in Canada of the FLIRT trains. Specifically for the Trillium Line. Delivery of the vehicles will start in mid-2021.

Lots of information is contained within. Check it out. 

2019_0423_media_release_ottawa_en.pdf 177.84 kB · 6 downloads

Finally!

Here's the image that went with the release:
Unlike in the previous renders, it includes the power pack.

flirt_trillium_line.jpg

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I find it interesting how they don't really have a "common" identity across the train. Confederation train have a "swoop" design, LINT have a "full-red DB" design, and the Flirt look like a "DB with a Maple Leaf" design!

 

It will be interesting to see them physically, but I think this livery looks better than the current LINT or Confederation line design.

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19 hours ago, DavidBellerive said:

I find it interesting how they don't really have a "common" identity across the train. Confederation train have a "swoop" design, LINT have a "full-red DB" design, and the Flirt look like a "DB with a Maple Leaf" design!

 

It will be interesting to see them physically, but I think this livery looks better than the current LINT or Confederation line design.

Good Day.

Elsewhere (I cannot reall offhand) it was noted that City replied to this point with the statement that Stadler had only presented a concept livery for their presentation and announcement. It did not reflect the eventual end-product, although the concept would be taken note of in deciding the final result.

We Shall See.

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