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DavidBellerive

Stage 2 - Trillium Line - Construction Updates

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From yesterday's Stage 2 LRT presentation, the Airport Station is in the final design phase. (The only station that far along it would seem).

This would make sense as the guideway on the airport property should be completed by end of 2020, to coincide with the terminal renovations and expansion. The airport station itself will be constructed by the Airport Authority, to the City's approved design and specifications.

There has been alot of talk on Twitter since yesterday about the 2 transfers required from the Airport to reach downtown. YOW - South Keys, South Keys - Bayview, Bayview - Parliament/Lyon.

Keep in mind that the track configuration is such that the Airport Spur line will rejoin the main line of Line 2 to enter South Keys. For all intensive purposes, the Airport train can continue to Bayview, however the reason it may not is that the rest of the Trillium Line is for the most part a single track operation. As such, introducing a train into the mix that would not continue to Limebank would create a service gap in service heading south to Limebank every few trains. In other words, while the mainline service would be every 12 minutes or so, the introduction of the Airport train could lengthen every 3rd or 4th trip to double the wait south of South Keys.

In addition, the Airport line will run the shorter Alstom Coradia LINT trains, which are half the length of the new FLIRTS they will be receiving. The mainline will also run one coupled LINT (2 LINTS coupled together) in tandem with the FLIRTS. Therefore, not only do you have an odd service frequency reduction between South Keys and Limebank, but you also have a train that has half the capacity running as well.

For these reasons, it is not a good service offering for those south of South Keys to have to contend with the irregular service and capacity reduction that interlining the Airport Spur line would cause. Prioritize better airport service at the expense of those riding the main line.

All of this isn't to say it will never happen. It very well may be decided to run it to Bayview. Even running a shuttle between Airport - Uplands - South Keys --- and then express to Bayview.... would cause some issues as again , the mainline is single track. The ultimate solution would be to double track the entire line, something which isn't planned for the foreseeable future unfortunately.

It would be interesting to setup some model trains on a scale track to the Stage 2 configuration, and run them back and forth, while introducing the airport line train to see how it could be workable.

Again, Bayview is projected to have two platforms for Line 2 with the upgrades from Stage 2, one could be dedicated or identified as the YOW Airport Express Line, with service to Uplands (E.Y. Centre).

Lots of possibilities.... Some track limitations....

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I sent an email to the Stage 2 team. I'll post the response if I receive one. 

Good morning,

I had a few questions regarding the scope of Stage 2 I was hoping could get answered.

1. On the Alstom Citadis trains currently running on Line 1, information screens (displaying the current time, next station, final destination) were only installed over the gangways on one side therefore, if a passenger sits on a seat facing the other side, or stands the other way, they are unable to see that information. Will the Stage 2 trains have display screens on both sides of each module?

2. Will ALL structures of Trillium Stage 2 (overpasses and underpasses) be built to one day accommodate double tracking? For example, the Elwood Diamond grade separated section will have a single track however, will the pillars be wide enough to eventually accommodate a second track? Will the Carling underpass be widened to accommodate double tracking?

3. As it stands, the 18 month shut-down of the Trillium Line will be very inconvenient for the nearly 20,000 daily riders. Once Stage 2 opens, the ridership will increase significantly. Can the City guarantee that the work going into the Line as part of Stage 2 be enough to guarantee it will NEVER again be shut down for upgrades (future electrification, double tracking and other)?

4. It has been established that the new Civic Hospital will not be getting its own station, which makes a lot of sense considering the short distance to Carling Station however, would it be possible to one day place the station under Carling in order to have entrances on both sides of the road to better serve both the high-density north side and Dow's Lake and Civic on the south side? I'm not necessarily suggesting we do tat now, but possibly when we decide to double track the entire Line.

Thank you for taking my questions.

Best regards,

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On 2019-12-06 at 10:58 AM, JazzyJ said:

Anyone hear or know who SNC hired for the Signalling and Train Control portion of Trillium??

Couldn't find a specific answer other than it is the responsibility of TransitNext (SNC) to provide the system. Seems like there was no announcement or decided provider as of PA's signing. Might be a question to escalate to the Stage2 team?

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Hey guys,

I couldn't attend the info sessions offered by the city; so I got in touch with a city rep. via email instead. Here are my questions about the South Extension and their answers for those interested:

Q1. Has the city considered converting the corridor between Mooney's Bay Station to South Keys Station to double track instead of keeping the current single track configuration?
The City did consider this option, but the double tracking would require a significant infrastructure investment that funding could not support at this time. Modelling undertaken as part of the 2013 TMP update found that 2031 travel demand can be met using a single-track line with passing sidings.

Q2. Will trains run directly from Airport Station to Bayview Station?

No. Trains will run from Bayview to Limebank, passing through South Keys. At South Keys, passengers can transfer to a train that, using a spur, will transport them to the Airport.

Q3. Will the single track between Leitrim Station and South Keys Station be able to handle peak time traffic?

The system is being built to manage 12 minute headways (as it currently does) and as mentioned above, this modelling should support the development/growth of ridership into 2031.

Q4. Will the Transitway road between Walkley Station and South Keys Station remain open after the completion of Stage2?

We are still in the early stages of transit planning and so I don’t have this information right now, I will investigate and follow up with you.

Q5. (Stage2 East) Will Trim Station include a pedestrian walkway to enter/exit over the Westbound lane of the RR174, to connect to the newly announced Brigile Petrie's Landing Project?

At this time, designs for Trim Station do not include a pedestrian walkway over the westbound lands of the RR174.

 

Edited by Antoine
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2 hours ago, Antoine said:

Q1. Has the city considered converting the corridor between Moodie Station to South Keys Station to double track instead of keeping the current single track configuration?
The City did consider this option, but the double tracking would require a significant infrastructure investment that funding could not support at this time. Modelling undertaken as part of the 2013 TMP update found that 2031 travel demand can be met using a single-track line with passing sidings.

Moodie? Was it meant to be Bayview?

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It will be interesting to see what they do with the portion of transitway between walkley and south keys. 

Will transitway passengers have to transfer to line 2 to take them the rest of the way? or can they just take the transitway directly to south keys then transfer? if they decide to shut down the trasitway from walkley to south keys what will happen with that road portion?

these are all interesting questions and i want to know your opinions.

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4 hours ago, occheetos said:

Moodie? Was it meant to be Bayview?

No, I asked about the stretch of track between Mooney's Bay and SouthKeys; because I just assumed they wouldn't have had any plans to build a double-track bridge at Carleton or a new tunnel/bridge for Dow's lake anyways.

2 hours ago, Alex said:

these are all interesting questions and i want to know your opinions.

I feel like they'll keep that part of the Transitway open, so buses will be able to still run the SouthKeys - Hurdman route. That would also save the cost of building new bus loops/platforms to connect with those 3 train stops.

Edited by Antoine

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6 minutes ago, Antoine said:

No, I asked about the stretch of track between Moodie and SouthKeys; because I just assumed they wouldn't have had any plans to build a double-track bridge at Carleton or a new tunnel/bridge for Dow's lake anyways.

You're mistaking Mooney's Bay with Moodie !!! 

Moodie is in the far west just before the Green Belt. It'll be served by the Confederation Line after stage 2. Mooney's bay is the station just before Carleton going northbound from South Keys.

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Just now, Matth69000 said:

You're mistaking Mooney's Bay with Moodie !!! 

Moodie is in the far west just before the Green Belt. It'll be served by the Confederation Line after stage 2. Mooney's bay is the station just before Carleton going northbound from South Keys.

Whoops ya you're right haha! I commute to Moodie too often, yes I meant Mooney my bad!

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So I know that they're not planning to double-track what already exists of the line, since that would be too expensive and not necessary for now. But wouldn't it be good to double-track all of the new part that is being built? Since it is being built right now, it would be the best moment to do it as opposed to, for example, after 2031 when that part of the track would already be in operation and therefore adding a second track would disrupt the service. 

Even though the current capacity needs are met with the single track line, there is a very real possibility that after the city has grown post-2031, the capacity will become too big for that and will need a double-track line. So why not just do it now and get it over with, and be assured for many years to come instead of having to worry about it again in a few years?

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1 hour ago, Dr. Human said:

But wouldn't it be good to double-track all of the new part that is being built? Since it is being built right now, it would be the best moment to do it as opposed to, for example, after 2031 when that part of the track would already be in operation and therefore adding a second track would disrupt the service. 

Any important part of it will be double tracked as they lay new track in the south. Any over/underpass will be built to accommodate double track south of South Keys station. The only single track section is between the crossover switch by South Keys station and Leitrim, but since the overpass over Hunt Club will be doubled (or rather, a second one will be built) the only thing to do to complete the full doubling is add a new switch before the Airport spur curves off and continue the track south to join the second track that starts at Leitrim.

Bayview through Gladstone will also be doubled, and the Airport spur will have a surprisingly long passing section, though it won't need doubling for a very, very long time if at all.

 

 

Edited by occheetos

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2 hours ago, occheetos said:

Any important part of it will be double tracked as they lay new track in the south. Any over/underpass will be built to accommodate double track south of South Keys station.

The part that might cause issues post 2031 expansion are those one-platform and one-track stations on the main line (Mooney, Walkley and Greenboro) ? That's the thing I'm mostly sad they cheaped-out on...

Edited by Antoine

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4 hours ago, occheetos said:

Any important part of it will be double tracked as they lay new track in the south. Any over/underpass will be built to accommodate double track south of South Keys station. The only single track section is between the crossover switch by South Keys station and Leitrim, but since the overpass over Hunt Club will be doubled (or rather, a second one will be built) the only thing to do to complete the full doubling is add a new switch before the Airport spur curves off and continue the track south to join the second track that starts at Leitrim.

Bayview through Gladstone will also be doubled, and the Airport spur will have a surprisingly long passing section, though it won't need doubling for a very, very long time if at all.

 

 

Ok, so they are planning to double track it! Thanks for the information. That's definitely good news, since it will allow for more flexible planning in the future in the case that they do decide to double-track the whole line. So just to clarify, it will be double-tracked from Bayview to Gladstone, single-tracked from Gladstone to Leitrim and Double-tracked from Leitrim to Limebank?

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6 hours ago, Dr. Human said:

Ok, so they are planning to double track it! Thanks for the information. That's definitely good news, since it will allow for more flexible planning in the future in the case that they do decide to double-track the whole line. So just to clarify, it will be double-tracked from Bayview to Gladstone, single-tracked from Gladstone to Leitrim and Double-tracked from Leitrim to Limebank?

More or less, yes. You can see the entire planned alignment on the system map: https://map.otrainfans.ca/

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